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Laurent Cazaderon
What The French
CRONOS.
1721
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Posted - 2013.07.08 09:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
5aEKUXeRJGJ27kCDnDVYak4 wrote:CCP you lied. It is obviously faster than before. It is even faster than walking forward.
You just somehow mistaken the "DS3+keyboard = 2x strafe" bug as "normal speed".
I am truly speechless as to how incompetence you are to not notice this.
Fix this strafe. This is not normal. This is 2x the normal speed.
It is also faster than walking forward, how do you even explain that?
All i know is i like it that way. Much more dynamic than it was before. |
Laurent Cazaderon
What The French
CRONOS.
1724
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 09:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Laurent Cazaderon wrote:5aEKUXeRJGJ27kCDnDVYak4 wrote:CCP you lied. It is obviously faster than before. It is even faster than walking forward.
You just somehow mistaken the "DS3+keyboard = 2x strafe" bug as "normal speed".
I am truly speechless as to how incompetence you are to not notice this.
Fix this strafe. This is not normal. This is 2x the normal speed.
It is also faster than walking forward, how do you even explain that? All i know is i like it that way. Much more dynamic than it was before. I think we have different definitions of dynamic 
dynamic : "Marked by intensity and vigor"
So yeah, it's much more dynamic than the previous straf speed where i felt i had as much intensity and vigor as a dead snail. |
Laurent Cazaderon
What The French
CRONOS.
1724
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 09:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:Laurent Cazaderon wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Laurent Cazaderon wrote:5aEKUXeRJGJ27kCDnDVYak4 wrote:CCP you lied. It is obviously faster than before. It is even faster than walking forward.
You just somehow mistaken the "DS3+keyboard = 2x strafe" bug as "normal speed".
I am truly speechless as to how incompetence you are to not notice this.
Fix this strafe. This is not normal. This is 2x the normal speed.
It is also faster than walking forward, how do you even explain that? All i know is i like it that way. Much more dynamic than it was before. I think we have different definitions of dynamic dynamic : "Marked by intensity and vigor"So yeah, it's much more dynamic than the previous straf speed where i felt i had as much intensity and vigor as a dead snail. Being schooled in English by a Frenchman, props Caz <3
LOL |
Laurent Cazaderon
What The French
CRONOS.
1726
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 10:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Laurent Cazaderon wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Laurent Cazaderon wrote:5aEKUXeRJGJ27kCDnDVYak4 wrote:CCP you lied. It is obviously faster than before. It is even faster than walking forward.
You just somehow mistaken the "DS3+keyboard = 2x strafe" bug as "normal speed".
I am truly speechless as to how incompetence you are to not notice this.
Fix this strafe. This is not normal. This is 2x the normal speed.
It is also faster than walking forward, how do you even explain that? All i know is i like it that way. Much more dynamic than it was before. I think we have different definitions of dynamic dynamic : "Marked by intensity and vigor"So yeah, it's much more dynamic than the previous straf speed where i felt i had as much intensity and vigor as a dead snail. So heavies dancing like scouts is intense and vigorous? Thankfully CCP has entirely disconnected with any form of consistency in vision that they were heading towards. Disco shoes all around, because going backwards in gaming development is nostalgically delicious.
I dont know where you see dancing heavies..... I have absoltely no problem aiming at them when they attempt to strafe.... Yes they move but disco shoes ? I dont think you actually remember how dust was when we had dancing shoes... Even precursor had faster movement speed than that where i spent my days circling around people laughing.
Same story.. people struggling with soldier who can actually move wants to have their life made easier for them. |
Laurent Cazaderon
What The French
CRONOS.
1727
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 10:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Same story...the second you oppose someones personal belief, they attack you instead of simply discussing. You instantly assume its because I have trouble aiming, and not that it has anything to do with making heavies and scouts weaker in a game where theyre already laughable. Its too early for this debate, this game is a ******* joke anyways.
We can talk but you're the one starting with disco shoes and dancing etc... So you're the one who's attacking personnal like in the first place. Dont say otherwise.
So now, heavies are weaker when they can dance ? Weird, i would have thought it makes them a lot more able to ruin people considering how you said it. As for scouts, weirdly enough the only scout dude i have in my team actually says it's better now for him. So again, depends on your POV. On a personal note, Never been shot by so many scout SG in Uprising before 1.2.
Anyway, heavies and scouts balance isnt something that belongs to the movement speed debate. They're entirely different issues that i already discussed multiple times with CCP prior to any patch when uprising was released.
What i notice that really matters since 1.2 and the change to strafe is that many people who had stopped playing in my team are coming back. And many forum post here acknowledge the fact the game is more fun that way. I also can dodge murder taxi more easily (even though this problem needs to be balanced differently as well).
So overall, i'm pretty confident that a lot more people enjoy it than the opposite.
Question about whether or not going forward, backward needs to be tweak to fit in with this is another issue. |
Laurent Cazaderon
What The French
CRONOS.
1729
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 10:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
Banning Hammer wrote:Laurent Cazaderon wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Same story...the second you oppose someones personal belief, they attack you instead of simply discussing. You instantly assume its because I have trouble aiming, and not that it has anything to do with making heavies and scouts weaker in a game where theyre already laughable. Its too early for this debate, this game is a ******* joke anyways. We can talk but you're the one starting with disco shoes and dancing etc... So you're the one who's attacking personnal like in the first place. Dont say otherwise. So now, heavies are weaker when they can dance ? Weird, i would have thought it makes them a lot more able to ruin people considering how you said it. As for scouts, weirdly enough the only scout dude i have in my team actually says it's better now for him. So again, depends on your POV. On a personal note, Never been shot by so many scout SG in Uprising before 1.2. Anyway, heavies and scouts balance isnt something that belongs to the movement speed debate. They're entirely different issues that i already discussed multiple times with CCP prior to any patch when uprising was released. What i notice that really matters since 1.2 and the change to strafe is that many people who had stopped playing in my team are coming back. And many forum post here acknowledge the fact the game is more fun that way. I also can dodge murder taxi more easily (even though this problem needs to be balanced differently as well). So overall, i'm pretty confident that a lot more people enjoy it than the opposite. Question about whether or not going forward, backward needs to be tweak to fit in with this is another issue. You are a CPM... ask CCP to change the turning speeds, and the overall forwards / backwards speed to match the strafe speed.. then we are in business again. Also when you are at it... ask them to fix the kitten aiming. 
Rest assured, we dont talk soccer or weather. As for movement speed, i'll take more time to test and read feedback before pointing to any tweak to make. |
Laurent Cazaderon
What The French
CRONOS.
1729
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 10:38:00 -
[7] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Comparing quickly hopping side to side as dancing and wearing disco shoes isnt the same as saying someone doesnt like something because they want the game to do it for them.
You yourself JUST said you have no issues tracking a strafing heavy. So, heavies are just as easy to hit, while others get to "strafe" to avoid fire. Scout movement IS an issue because if you buff their movement then buff the class we come back to scouts that can only die if they try.
Its CCPs infuriating habit to completely change design directions without a moments notice, then showcasing their lack of attention by telling us it was "a performance boost"
Well, obviously heavies are still easy to hit.. They do strafe faster but they're far from being scouts like you said in your first post. So yeah, they remain sitting ducks compared to the other suits which fits the original vision. What's wrong with heavies is how hard they can suck up damages compared to what they could do in very early builds.
Quote: Scout movement IS an issue because if you buff their movement then buff the class we come back to scouts that can only die if they try.
I dont get what you mean here.... Die if they try ? Try what exactly ? And how is having better speed as a scout worse ? Because assault can strafe and hop side to side (twice maybe) ? I cant disagree more. Scouts do need a buff but speed is they're base defense, more cannot be of harm to them imo. I run a minmatar assault without any plate, meaning i straf fast and sprint even faster. Yet i cant beat a scouts that takes me in an awkward situation. That's obviously if he's good enough to track my 1-2 reflex jump and straf pattern.
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Laurent Cazaderon
What The French
CRONOS.
1738
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Posted - 2013.07.08 12:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
Deluxe Edition wrote:Laurent Cazaderon wrote:5aEKUXeRJGJ27kCDnDVYak4 wrote:CCP you lied. It is obviously faster than before. It is even faster than walking forward.
You just somehow mistaken the "DS3+keyboard = 2x strafe" bug as "normal speed".
I am truly speechless as to how incompetence you are to not notice this.
Fix this strafe. This is not normal. This is 2x the normal speed.
It is also faster than walking forward, how do you even explain that? All i know is i like it that way. Much more dynamic than it was before. The biggest issue is the strafe speed of the scout.. if you can call it that. It's more of a teleport really like watching an episode of dragon ball z. They are also comepletely break hit detection, even when tracking them well 75% of the on target bullets do not register making an AR completely useless against them. Right now the ONLY weapon that can kill scouts is the flaylock pistol.
I killed many scouts since 1.2. Still killed them way more than they killed me. Worst reaction vs a scout is to full auto. Fire nice tight burst and you'll hit them a lot more.
Let's not forget this game is based on RDS that makes your bullets pretty much not end up where you're aiming. God... i just hate that mecanics.. Important bi-dimensional (x and y) recoil and straight line for bullets is much more pleasant and skill demanding than those random dispersion system all FPS seems to love now. (who yelled counter strike in the back ?) |
Laurent Cazaderon
What The French
CRONOS.
1739
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 12:39:00 -
[9] - Quote
martinofski wrote:Spectral Clone wrote:Easier to kill heavies in CQC with my assault SMG now.
Fking awesome. While the heavy think the oposite about mostly every opponents in cqc. Laurent, let us know when you'll check speed, because the heavy can't track more than before and still other are strafing faster. A strafing heavy? Lol, never seen that. I mean really strafing A moving side to side one, yes, but still an eady target to track. I played one evening since 1.2 with the HMG, and have been runned around and strafe to death in CQC more than ever, to the point LAV are fun to get hit by (almost). I am playing forge now. All a heavy can track now is a guys too far to deal good damages, someone who don't strafe at all in cqc, another heavy or someone in a tight hallway.
Heavies were broken before 1.2 tbh. i crushed them with smg just as i do now. Heavies need some more HP. Well, at least Sentinel so the suit offers something really interesting compared to basic frames.
Bonus about feedback damage turned into a +5% bonus to both shield and armor base HP per level would be a lot of help to those big fellas. That and a slight buff to turn speed. But on that last point, progress are coming for the DS3 with the rapid fire updates and it might change a lot. |
Laurent Cazaderon
What The French
CRONOS.
1744
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 13:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
Deluxe Edition wrote:Laurent Cazaderon wrote:Deluxe Edition wrote:Laurent Cazaderon wrote:5aEKUXeRJGJ27kCDnDVYak4 wrote:CCP you lied. It is obviously faster than before. It is even faster than walking forward.
You just somehow mistaken the "DS3+keyboard = 2x strafe" bug as "normal speed".
I am truly speechless as to how incompetence you are to not notice this.
Fix this strafe. This is not normal. This is 2x the normal speed.
It is also faster than walking forward, how do you even explain that? All i know is i like it that way. Much more dynamic than it was before. The biggest issue is the strafe speed of the scout.. if you can call it that. It's more of a teleport really like watching an episode of dragon ball z. They are also comepletely break hit detection, even when tracking them well 75% of the on target bullets do not register making an AR completely useless against them. Right now the ONLY weapon that can kill scouts is the flaylock pistol. I killed many scouts since 1.2. Still killed them way more than they killed me. Worst reaction vs a scout is to full auto. Fire nice tight burst and you'll hit them a lot more. Let's not forget this game is based on RDS that makes your bullets pretty much not end up where you're aiming. God... i just hate that mecanics.. Important bi-dimensional (x and y) recoil and straight line for bullets is much more pleasant and skill demanding than those random dispersion system all FPS seems to love now. (who yelled counter strike in the back ?) I know how to burst my shots on an AR. The only time bullets register onthem is when I bring up my sights, however since they are all using flaylocks that isn't an option.
Flaylock is another issue. But aint that the point of scouts to be a massive pain to take down once they managed to get to CQC ? I mean, a scout at mid\long range is often dead quite fast. It's only fair that he becomes an overwhelming threat at close range.
Yes it's frustrating because it feels like the guy sometimes goes through bullets but hey, it's an uber fast suit in a futuristic universe. Besides, it s nothing compared to scouts when HD was really badly broken and nothing would register no matter the range. |
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Laurent Cazaderon
What The French
CRONOS.
1745
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 14:02:00 -
[11] - Quote
martinofski wrote:Laurent Cazaderon wrote:martinofski wrote:Spectral Clone wrote:Easier to kill heavies in CQC with my assault SMG now.
Fking awesome. While the heavy think the oposite about mostly every opponents in cqc. Laurent, let us know when you'll check speed, because the heavy can't track more than before and still other are strafing faster. A strafing heavy? Lol, never seen that. I mean really strafing A moving side to side one, yes, but still an eady target to track. I played one evening since 1.2 with the HMG, and have been runned around and strafe to death in CQC more than ever, to the point LAV are fun to get hit by (almost). I am playing forge now. All a heavy can track now is a guys too far to deal good damages, someone who don't strafe at all in cqc, another heavy or someone in a tight hallway. Heavies were broken before 1.2 tbh. i crushed them with smg just as i do now. Heavies need some more HP. Well, at least Sentinel so the suit offers something really interesting compared to basic frames. Bonus about feedback damage turned into a +5% bonus to both shield and armor base HP per level would be a lot of help to those big fellas. That and a slight buff to turn speed. But on that last point, progress are coming for the DS3 with the rapid fire updates and it might change a lot. Not sure the HP is the main concern I got for the heavy, more about the fun factor of it. It wont be fun to be turned around twice as long and shoot at if we have a hard time to just turn on ourself to track the guys. I am fine with the current speed for strafing, make the game more fast and enjoyable in general, but everyone strafing bonus from 1.2 is a minus for the heavy, since nothing have changed for him really. It was a "performance" fix for everyone, but for the heavies. Just showing how our turn speed was an issue even before 1.2.
As i said, work is being done on the DS3 acceleration, aim assist, on overall feel according to Wolfman. It's mainly because they focus on such basic enhancement that stuff we consider quick fix take longer. We may see some improvements round september i'd say. But dont quote me on that as it's nothing official.
Back to the heavies turn speed, yes it's slow. but it's kind of the purpose. It may be way too slow at the moment, havent tried much since 1.2 i'll admit. But regarding HP, anytime i face a heavy dude, i dont feel as much threatened as i should. Even when i dont have enough space to outmanoeuver him at close range, i usually go for a face to face that i win most of the time.
This always makes me kinda sad as i remember older build where heavies were even slower but were freakin rock solid. Well, they didnt have much overheat on their HMG at the time as well so it was really awfull lol but they were what they're meant to be. So yeah, i think heavies should have more HP than they have now. A faster turn rate as well but not by much as it is part of their profile. |
Laurent Cazaderon
What The French
CRONOS.
1747
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 14:37:00 -
[12] - Quote
Albert Farrier wrote:Laurent Cazaderon wrote:
...snip...
Back to the heavies turn speed, yes it's slow. but it's kind of the purpose. It may be way too slow at the moment, havent tried much since 1.2 i'll admit. But regarding HP, anytime i face a heavy dude, i dont feel as much threatened as i should. Even when i dont have enough space to outmanoeuver him at close range, i usually go for a face to face that i win most of the time.
This always makes me kinda sad as i remember older build where heavies were even slower but were freakin rock solid. Well, they didnt have much overheat on their HMG at the time as well so it was really awfull lol but they were what they're meant to be. So yeah, i think heavies should have more HP than they have now. A faster turn rate as well but not by much as it is part of their profile.
I agree that heavies should not be as fast as other lighter suits. The problem arose when all the other suits got a boost and the gap between them and the heavies widened. In a recent match, someone with a shotgun was literally running circles around me and all I could do was watch him kill me. I could not get away and I absolutely could not retaliate. I was completely defenceless. In my opinion, the HP of the heavy is fine. Any additional hp should come through skilling the proper suits and fittings. We just need to be able to defend ourselves in CQC. At this point I survive longer in the Militia Frontline fitting that comes preloaded in the game.
Dont forget the game relies on sort of a rock paper scissor system. or at least it's supposed to.
A heavy at very close range is supposed to be defenseless against a fast enemy. Not saying things are ideal. But there are situations where you're supposed to be doomed.
On the other hand, such weaknesses should come with being outterly dangerous and powerfull in other situations which isnt the case.
Balance is a tough thing to reach, especially with dust compared to other FPS. Everyone has its idea but it's fair to say no one can get it to be perfect. Only solution :
Plan. Do. Check. Act. Do it again till you reach a soft spot. |
Laurent Cazaderon
What The French
CRONOS.
1758
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Posted - 2013.07.09 07:48:00 -
[13] - Quote
Albert Farrier wrote:Laurent Cazaderon wrote:
Dont forget the game relies on sort of a rock paper scissor system. or at least it's supposed to.
A heavy at very close range is supposed to be defenseless against a fast enemy. Not saying things are ideal. But there are situations where you're supposed to be doomed.
On the other hand, such weaknesses should come with being outterly dangerous and powerfull in other situations which isnt the case.
Balance is a tough thing to reach, especially with dust compared to other FPS. Everyone has its idea but it's fair to say no one can get it to be perfect. Only solution :
Plan. Do. Check. Act. Do it again till you reach a soft spot.
My experience has been that if I am close enough to do the damage that a boundless hmg is supposed to do, I am close enough to be "defenceless and doomed" even with the range increase. Perhaps this is due to my lack of skill at this game, but I did not have this problem before 1.2. That being said, I would like to apologize if I come across as just another complainer trying to tell CCP how it should be done. That is not my intention at all. I understand that it can be frustrating to be working hard to get a product polished and have hoards of angry players telling you that you are doing it wrong. My hope is to add the viewpoint of a noob to that of the seasoned vets so that you may get some ideas to improve the new player experience. (granted, I shouldn't be such a noob if I have been in long enough to have a sentinel suit and proto weapon, as I said before, I SUCK at this game lol) I do appreciate all of you at CCP listening to player feedback and trying to make this game all it can be.
I see what you mean. And no prob, all feedback is welcomed ^^ |
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